Solo Vee

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Posting pictures

Last post by FV80 « June 18th, 2015, 2:08 pm
Posted in General Discussion

by FV80 » June 18th, 2015, 2:08 pm » in General Discussion

It is now possible to post pictures and other attachments on this forum. I would, however, suggest that, if the picture(s) is/are already posted...

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66121 Views

Last post by FV80
June 18th, 2015, 2:08 pm
Board ANNOUNCEMENT ! and DONATIONS ...

Last post by BLS « December 10th, 2023, 1:29 pm
Posted in General Discussion
Replies: 14
by FV80 » April 21st, 2015, 3:07 pm » in General Discussion

First post

This board has been moved from its old host and admin to a new location.

I realize that some aspects of this board have been .. not up to par in...

Last post

Hi Dietmar,

I figure that is the case. With ApexSpeed being so big it's where people tend to go for internet info. Nice place, but as far as...

14 Replies

188083 Views

Last post by BLS
December 10th, 2023, 1:29 pm

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Last post

Front Suspension Setups

Last post by MBillings « June 10th, 2009, 1:39 pm
Replies: 6
by bug1960 » June 8th, 2009, 10:05 pm

First post

Just wondering what suspension setups people are running on their Vee. I am having a bit of trouble this year with the front end droop and dragging...

Last post

Before changing your front suspension, you might try putting a hard rubber stopper inside your front shocks. I had some Koni inserts that I placed...

6 Replies

3048 Views

Last post by MBillings
June 10th, 2009, 1:39 pm
Blytheville National Tour

Last post by FM4SOLO « June 8th, 2009, 11:27 pm
Replies: 3
by FM4SOLO » June 2nd, 2009, 12:51 pm

First post

My son and I ran the Eastern States Championships last weekend. The car ran well (72 Lynx, no updates), and we had a great time.

Day 2 roll bar cam....

Last post

Helmet cam run 1

Run 2

3 Replies

1774 Views

Last post by FM4SOLO
June 8th, 2009, 11:27 pm
A couple video's from Sebring Autocross this past weekend

Last post by snookwheel « June 8th, 2009, 9:38 am

by snookwheel » June 8th, 2009, 9:38 am

A great time:

Wife driving the Solo Vee:

Scott in Solo Vee:

And a vintage Datsun because it was so well driven and fast.: Elliot

A cool...

0 Replies

1271 Views

Last post by snookwheel
June 8th, 2009, 9:38 am
starter - what's everyone use

Last post by Lynn « June 7th, 2009, 12:29 am
Replies: 3
by turbospl311 » June 5th, 2009, 8:34 pm

First post

Hi, I seem to kill starters. They seem to get weak after a year of so. Any recommendations? What's everyone use?

Thanks, Don Miller
1966 Austro Vau...

Last post

Yes, we did. The problem is not just the header, but also a removable bar which supports the zero roll tower. If either were a little different, the...

3 Replies

1766 Views

Last post by Lynn
June 7th, 2009, 12:29 am
Sardini Solo Vee

Last post by Lynn « June 3rd, 2009, 7:26 pm
Replies: 1
by HVR67 » June 3rd, 2009, 3:31 pm

First post

Does Brandon85 still compete in his Sardini? If anyone knows him personally or sees him at a Solo event, would you please have him call me at...

Last post

FM4SOLO is Brandon's dad. Too bad you didn't post this last week. I saw them at Blytheville.

1 Replies

1334 Views

Last post by Lynn
June 3rd, 2009, 7:26 pm
Autocross at Sebring Raceway June 6 & 7

Last post by snookwheel « June 3rd, 2009, 6:48 am
Replies: 2
by snookwheel » June 2nd, 2009, 6:20 pm

First post

Always a GREAT time. lots of grip and plenty of room. Nothing like the Sebring Raceway atmosphere. I know there are a couple other Solo Vee's popping...

Last post

Thanks for the 'heads up' Lynn. It should work now. Scott

2 Replies

1682 Views

Last post by snookwheel
June 3rd, 2009, 6:48 am
Test Video

Last post by snookwheel « May 11th, 2009, 9:30 pm
Replies: 2
by bug1960 » May 9th, 2009, 9:46 pm

First post

Below is a link to a test video of an Autocross at a Western New York Region Event. Th only place for the camera was on the front windscreen area of...

Last post

Here's an in car of the same course: I really need a wider angle lens for the in car videos.

2 Replies

1672 Views

Last post by snookwheel
May 11th, 2009, 9:30 pm
Rules changes???

Last post by MBillings « April 21st, 2009, 2:36 pm
Replies: 1
by 77fmod » April 21st, 2009, 2:07 pm

First post

Has anyone got a PDF of the changes that went into affect last year? I'm not sure what month they were posted in Fastrack back in '07 and I can't...

Last post

Johnny,

I just went to the SCCA home page and logged in. I then did a search for the solo rules and found all the information about the Solo Vee...

1 Replies

1234 Views

Last post by MBillings
April 21st, 2009, 2:36 pm
Mike Billings

Last post by 77fmod « April 19th, 2009, 5:17 pm

by 77fmod » April 19th, 2009, 5:17 pm

Please check your PM's..

Thanks

0 Replies

1122 Views

Last post by 77fmod
April 19th, 2009, 5:17 pm
Porsche 914 transaxle question

Last post by 77fmod « April 19th, 2009, 5:07 pm
Replies: 5
by 1969zeitler » April 12th, 2009, 1:33 pm

First post

Any advantage in running a 914 transaxle versus a VW in solo VEE? Will a VW engine bolt up? What do you do about the clutch? Thanks

Last post

I am sure that the rules specify a Type 1 tranny prior to year 1966.. I can only wish that a fully independent rear suspension would be legal! LOL..

5 Replies

2839 Views

Last post by 77fmod
April 19th, 2009, 5:07 pm
Solo vee on e-bay

Last post by vreihen « April 11th, 2009, 6:14 pm
Replies: 1
by Veefan » April 11th, 2009, 9:11 am

First post

Not my car, looks like a nice package.

Last post

Interesting. I'll have to ask Dennis why he's selling it when I see him on Monday evening.....

1 Replies

1736 Views

Last post by vreihen
April 11th, 2009, 6:14 pm
Contact info...

Last post by 77fmod « March 25th, 2009, 1:09 pm
Replies: 2
by 77fmod » March 24th, 2009, 2:52 pm

First post

Does anyone have contact info for Scott Nardin? email or phone would be appreciated..

Thanks,

Johnny B.

Last post

Thanks Vernon

2 Replies

1567 Views

Last post by 77fmod
March 25th, 2009, 1:09 pm
Autocross last Sunday

Last post by snookwheel « March 24th, 2009, 6:35 am

by snookwheel » March 24th, 2009, 6:35 am

I went to a local Autocross last Sunday. The venue is a police training course. A lot less grip than the asphalt at Brooksville airport where I...

0 Replies

1281 Views

Last post by snookwheel
March 24th, 2009, 6:35 am
Where to Buy Tires

Last post by SR Racing « March 22nd, 2009, 11:08 pm
Replies: 3
by bug1960 » March 22nd, 2009, 7:30 pm

First post

Where is everyone buying their tires for their Vee's. What prices are most paying ? I need to buy a new set 20x7.5-13 and 20x9-13 I currently have a...

Last post

Where is everyone buying their tires for their Vee's. What prices are most paying ? I need to buy a new set 20x7.5-13 and 20x9-13 I currently have a...

3 Replies

2015 Views

Last post by SR Racing
March 22nd, 2009, 11:08 pm
Can a Road Racing VEE run in Solo?

Last post by DanRemmers « March 15th, 2009, 9:01 pm
Replies: 7
by flat tappet » January 27th, 2009, 5:48 pm

First post

I won't change my Formula Vee for Solo. Can I still run?

Thanks

Last post

Yes, a Formula First runs in FMod in solo.

7 Replies

3640 Views

Last post by DanRemmers
March 15th, 2009, 9:01 pm
Rear Brake Drums and Parts

Last post by problemchild « March 11th, 2009, 9:37 pm

by problemchild » March 11th, 2009, 9:37 pm

I have a pair of rear brake assemblies from my FST car as run for 3 1/2 years. My competitor's paranoia has brought a rule change so I am changing to...

0 Replies

1214 Views

Last post by problemchild
March 11th, 2009, 9:37 pm
Motorcycle-powered F500's???

Last post by Lynn « March 5th, 2009, 6:58 pm
Replies: 5
by vreihen » March 3rd, 2009, 10:08 am

First post

Just ran across this posting on another forum, and figured that I'd post it here for comment since we have to share a Solo class with the F500's in...

Last post

FSAE cars are faster. Four seconds quicker at Nationals last year. 2.4 seconds slower than AM. The top FSAE car are running mid five figure aero...

5 Replies

2864 Views

Last post by Lynn
March 5th, 2009, 6:58 pm
Jetting for 1915 upgrade

Last post by turbospl311 « March 2nd, 2009, 4:53 pm
Replies: 5
by turbospl311 » February 28th, 2009, 8:12 pm

First post

So, the 1915 goes together tomorrow. I currently have a weber 40. Any recommendations for jets so I don't run too lean at startup. Or are ya'll...

Last post

That at least gives a great starting point!

Thanks for all the info!

Don (let's not blow things up.....YET) Miller

5 Replies

2582 Views

Last post by turbospl311
March 2nd, 2009, 4:53 pm
Rain tire advice needed

Last post by snookwheel « February 28th, 2009, 9:50 pm
Replies: 4
by snookwheel » February 28th, 2009, 4:48 pm

First post

I have a full set of skinny formula Vee rain tires and wheels. However, I am sure that there is a better tire to be using in wet conditions for a...

Last post

I'm still up in the air about adding another car to the stable.... but that Amod would be pretty fun! Thanks for the tire info.

Scott

4 Replies

2394 Views

Last post by snookwheel
February 28th, 2009, 9:50 pm
My wife is coming over to the Dark Side

Last post by mityfast « February 19th, 2009, 7:05 pm
Replies: 6
by snookwheel » February 16th, 2009, 8:50 pm

First post

My wife has been autocrossing her Solstice GXP for a few events. Now, she has decided that she wants to go a little faster.

A few us us spent the...

Last post

Don't you love the wheel hop when that happens...great pic!

6 Replies

2631 Views

Last post by mityfast
February 19th, 2009, 7:05 pm
Third gear

Last post by 77fmod « February 19th, 2009, 5:11 pm
Replies: 4
by killerken53 » February 18th, 2009, 10:26 am

First post

Well, spring is coming and it is finally warm enough to work in the garage without freezing my @** off. One of the major projects I want to get in to...

Last post

Lynn,
If the Zink has the same tranny in it that I had built, then it is has a 1.56 and a 1.22. I currently run a 1.48 as I beleve that Scott N....

4 Replies

2214 Views

Last post by 77fmod
February 19th, 2009, 5:11 pm
Aluminum Case

Last post by turbospl311 « February 7th, 2009, 12:53 am
Replies: 9
by MBillings » February 5th, 2009, 4:28 pm

First post

I just discovered I have a case failure...metal in the bottom of the deep sump. I thought aluminum cases were legal as a replacement. The rules...

Last post

Mike, You know I just went through finding a case. Keep your eye on e-bay, check with SR racing or hit Mike at Bow Wow.

Don (been there, paid for...

9 Replies

4345 Views

Last post by turbospl311
February 7th, 2009, 12:53 am
Winter projects???

Last post by 77fmod « February 4th, 2009, 2:08 pm
Replies: 13
by 77fmod » February 1st, 2009, 6:23 pm

First post

This site has been so dead for so long, I thought I would ask what everyone is doing? What winter projects are happening?

I am wrapping my car up. I...

Last post

Lynn,
I was at about 1010-1015 with a thin T6 aluminum pan under it and my body weight at 185lbs. You can figure that was about 825lbs minus me and...

13 Replies

7526 Views

Last post by 77fmod
February 4th, 2009, 2:08 pm
Solo Vee alignment

Last post by turbospl311 « January 14th, 2009, 11:27 pm
Replies: 3
by redvett » January 8th, 2009, 10:50 pm

First post

Does anyone have any insight into what alignment settings work best, I have a 1980 Lynx B with a zero roll rear suspension. Any input would be...

Last post

I run a Z-bar rear as well. I run a softer spring setup than MIke with 1 torsion bar in front and 100 lb springs in the rear. I run 1 to 1.5 deg neg...

3 Replies

2356 Views

Last post by turbospl311
January 14th, 2009, 11:27 pm
Too quiet too long on the Solo Forum....

Last post by snookwheel « December 20th, 2008, 3:35 am
Replies: 14
by snookwheel » December 7th, 2008, 6:08 pm

First post

So, here's a couple videos from 12-6!

Same course, in car video:

Nice long course at Brooksville Airport. There was a Lotus 61J running also. A...

Last post

I dug up the actual regulation regarding roll bars for Solo Modified.

Appendex c:

2. The top of the roll bar shall not be below the top of the...

14 Replies

8731 Views

Last post by snookwheel
December 20th, 2008, 3:35 am
Solo Gas Tanks For Sale

Last post by problemchild « December 12th, 2008, 1:19 pm

by problemchild » December 12th, 2008, 1:19 pm

Shirley Maclane SM1 Gas Tank
Although this was for a Lynx clone, it is wider and requires minimum of 15 between the rails. Tank is 14 1/2 wide but...

0 Replies

1291 Views

Last post by problemchild
December 12th, 2008, 1:19 pm
Fuel tanks?

Last post by vreihen « December 11th, 2008, 6:10 pm
Replies: 13
by problemchild » December 8th, 2008, 11:03 am

First post

Please excuse my ignorance, but are fuel cells required for solo competition with formula classes?
I road-raced for years in Canadian FV, FF, F2000...

Last post

Yep, I retired at the end of '07. I was on the MAC for 7+ years and it was time for me to go. The target on my back was just getting too big :lol:...

13 Replies

6467 Views

Last post by vreihen
December 11th, 2008, 6:10 pm
Dust of your concrete setups

Last post by Lynn « November 18th, 2008, 10:12 pm
Replies: 10
by Lynn » November 11th, 2008, 4:22 pm

First post

The Nationals move to Lincoln, NE. 35 acres of concrete.

Last post

New info indicates there will be just as many Tours this year as last. One source says they could be announced this week, but another says the...

10 Replies

4722 Views

Last post by Lynn
November 18th, 2008, 10:12 pm
Test and Tune in Brooksville. And a cheapo Weber Fix!!

Last post by snookwheel « November 16th, 2008, 8:59 pm

by snookwheel » November 16th, 2008, 8:59 pm

We went to a Test and Tune in Brooksville today. It was put on by the Central Florida SCCA. I had some serious engine stumbling going on... Wasted a...

0 Replies

1126 Views

Last post by snookwheel
November 16th, 2008, 8:59 pm
And the 2009 PAX for F Modified is . . .

Last post by vreihen « November 15th, 2008, 9:44 am
Replies: 6
by Lynn » November 14th, 2008, 6:15 pm

First post

0.903 :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Damn chainsaws. :x :evil: :x :evil:

Last post

Keep in mind that Formula SAE is based on 600cc motorcycle engines WITH RESTRICTOR PLATES If they get the motorcycle engines for club racing, they...

6 Replies

3270 Views

Last post by vreihen
November 15th, 2008, 9:44 am
Dual Carbs on a 1600 (again)

Last post by snookwheel « October 23rd, 2008, 8:30 pm
Replies: 10
by snookwheel » October 20th, 2008, 12:00 pm

First post

I am seriously thinking about taking the plunge. I still have yet to hear about anyone who has done it and their thoughts about the increase in...

Last post

I'm interested in buying a 44 IDF Weber carburetor. Does anyone have one for sale?

Mike

That's another option. Any thoughts about performance...

10 Replies

5411 Views

Last post by snookwheel
October 23rd, 2008, 8:30 pm
Sebring AutoX last weekend & upcoming State championships

Last post by snookwheel « October 20th, 2008, 9:37 pm

by snookwheel » October 20th, 2008, 9:37 pm

The Central Florida SCCA held an autocross last weekend in Sebring. Great time and a fast course. It was a lot of fun to head over to the infield and...

0 Replies

1068 Views

Last post by snookwheel
October 20th, 2008, 9:37 pm
Autocross in Blytheville AR Oct 11/12

Last post by Lynn « October 8th, 2008, 5:11 pm
Replies: 8
by FM4SOLO » October 4th, 2008, 7:27 pm

First post

This is on the old SAC base, in contention for Nationals 09.

Friday October 10:

Course setup
Course walk open when approved
Tech/Registration 4PM -...

Last post

The surface is in great shape. It should have a little undulation. There are some fences reducing the usable area and there are some light poles....

8 Replies

4180 Views

Last post by Lynn
October 8th, 2008, 5:11 pm
Tried an AIPTEK camera today

Last post by snookwheel « October 5th, 2008, 11:19 pm

by snookwheel » October 5th, 2008, 11:19 pm

I picked up a cheap AIPTEK video camera at Walmart. The price was right, $99.99. The video quality was not too bad for what it is. I mounted it on my...

0 Replies

1179 Views

Last post by snookwheel
October 5th, 2008, 11:19 pm
wheels and tires for Auto-X

Last post by TigerBob « October 1st, 2008, 7:06 pm
Replies: 5
by TigerBob » September 29th, 2008, 11:51 pm

First post

Howdy, I'm thinking of running the ol Vee in some autocrosses and I'm wondering what size and offset of wheels are commonly used and what brand and...

Last post

Ahh, I didn't realize there would be much of a difference between a radial and bias ply.

5 Replies

3293 Views

Last post by TigerBob
October 1st, 2008, 7:06 pm
Nationals

Last post by MBillings « September 25th, 2008, 10:55 am
Replies: 12
by MBillings » September 17th, 2008, 11:05 am

First post

The two Vees at Nationals are struggling against the F500/F440 crowd. Does anyone know what modifications Bob or Vern have made to their cars, per...

Last post

To all,

I agree with Johnny's point about the SEB's willingness to create a new Vee class. I don't think it's going to happen for the reasons Johnny...

12 Replies

6539 Views

Last post by MBillings
September 25th, 2008, 10:55 am
Autocross last Sunday in Brooksville

Last post by FM4SOLO « September 23rd, 2008, 9:44 pm
Replies: 4
by snookwheel » September 22nd, 2008, 8:56 pm

First post

The local BMW club held an autocross last Sunday at the Hernando Airport. Approx. 50 cars. A fast course that allowed a total of nine runs. The runs...

Last post

That's great stuff. My son has just started autoXing in his Mazda 3. He is chomping at the bit to try the Solo Vee. I think it's time! Those young...

4 Replies

2151 Views

Last post by FM4SOLO
September 23rd, 2008, 9:44 pm
Nationals Sites

Last post by Lynn « September 23rd, 2008, 11:11 am

by Lynn » September 23rd, 2008, 11:11 am

At the Solo Town Hall, we were told that a decision on the site of the 2009 Nationals would be announced on or before Oct. 15th. Also, we were told...

0 Replies

1084 Views

Last post by Lynn
September 23rd, 2008, 11:11 am
Solo Racing on Wind Tunnel with Dave Dispain

Last post by Lynn « September 22nd, 2008, 7:10 pm
Replies: 4
by Martinracing98 » September 17th, 2008, 1:04 pm

First post

In case any one is interested. Last week Dave spoke of the most popular form of racing that no one knows about. SOLO. He said this weeks show 9/21...

Last post

There was an announcement a couple days before the how about the Solo segment being delayed until next week.

4 Replies

2314 Views

Last post by Lynn
September 22nd, 2008, 7:10 pm
Carburetor Size

Last post by Vernon Maxey « September 20th, 2008, 10:03 pm
Replies: 2
by MBillings » September 17th, 2008, 11:03 am

First post

When I updated my engine from 1600 cc's to 1915, I was told by the builder of my cylinder heads that if he were building the engine, he would build...

Last post

Hi Mike,
I have a 44 weber on my 1914. It has a 34mm vent, 165 main gas, 165 air cor, using 100 oct VP fuel, timing 16 ad to 36. On the dyno 98hp...

2 Replies

1622 Views

Last post by Vernon Maxey
September 20th, 2008, 10:03 pm
Central Florida Region SCCA event

Last post by snookwheel « September 15th, 2008, 7:53 pm
Replies: 2
by snookwheel » September 14th, 2008, 8:26 pm

First post

The CFR SCCA put on a great event today. A long course with plenty of opportunity to be well into third! Finally, another Solo Vee in attendance....

Last post

Thanks. You are right, it has been a learning process for me. Lots of torque in these little engines. No need to be winding it out all the way!...

2 Replies

1222 Views

Last post by snookwheel
September 15th, 2008, 7:53 pm
Battery size/capacity for Solo?

Last post by teamfrd « September 4th, 2008, 6:40 pm
Replies: 7
by vreihen » September 3rd, 2008, 4:47 pm

First post

Does anybody have a recommendation for a battery size/capacity that will make it through a typical autox day (6 runs, 8 engine starts) without...

Last post

I had over 2 years/18 events on my Sears Gold U1 $57 I feel better paying more the Gold, a few more CCA.
Initial starting is with the tow vehicle....

7 Replies

3456 Views

Last post by teamfrd
September 4th, 2008, 6:40 pm
qreshadow test

Last post by qreshadow « September 4th, 2008, 9:39 am
Replies: 5
by qreshadow » August 31st, 2008, 8:13 pm

First post

this is a test post...

Last post

Hey Johnny,

First of all, my apologies to Mike. I don't know why I get you two guys mixed up, but I do from time to time. :oops:

And yes, I know...

5 Replies

2484 Views

Last post by qreshadow
September 4th, 2008, 9:39 am
One hot Solo Vee

Last post by vreihen « August 31st, 2008, 7:55 am
Replies: 1
by snookwheel » August 31st, 2008, 7:42 am

First post

Hope the driver got out OK. Not one of you guys is it?

Is it even a Solo Vee?

Last post

This is a picture of the University of Toledo's FSAE car, which apparently blew an engine at a recent autox event. According to the driver, the...

1 Replies

1453 Views

Last post by vreihen
August 31st, 2008, 7:55 am
Limited Slip Differential

Last post by ultimate42 « August 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm
Replies: 15
by MBillings » August 26th, 2008, 10:48 am

First post

I'm thinking about adding a Torsen type limited slip to the Vee. Anyone with experience using that type of limitied slip? Does anyone have a...

Last post

The problem here is mis identifying the issue. Your problem is not with the diff, it is with the lifting of the inside tire. What you are actually...

15 Replies

8235 Views

Last post by ultimate42
August 28th, 2008, 10:03 pm
Nationals

Last post by Lynn « August 19th, 2008, 1:17 pm
Replies: 28
by Vernon Maxey » July 13th, 2008, 8:21 pm
1

2
First post

Any of you guys going to Nationals?

I know its a little early, but I'm the only Vee so far.

and only 6 in FMod.

v.
DSS Midiv

Last post

Nice video. I still laugh when I think of the F500 crowd complaining that we would be at 150 hp with the 1914.
28 Replies

13647 Views

Last post by Lynn
August 19th, 2008, 1:17 pm
Autodynamics for Sale

Last post by Dutch Vee « August 15th, 2008, 11:32 am
Replies: 4
by RobertSWMissouri » January 5th, 2008, 7:35 pm

First post

See ad in FV's for Sale. I am really motivated to sell, want to see this car driven. NEW long block, ready to race.

Robert

Last post

Hello, my name is Rob van Hoorn. My father Jaap raced Formula Vee cars from 1968 until 1980 and we and our friend Michel Nieswaag resumed racing in...

4 Replies

2802 Views

Last post by Dutch Vee
August 15th, 2008, 11:32 am
Weekend SCCA event

Last post by snookwheel « August 12th, 2008, 9:21 pm
Replies: 9
by snookwheel » August 11th, 2008, 6:51 am

First post

The Central Florida Region SCCA held a Saturday Test & Tune and a Sunday Autocross. Good times for the Solo Vee. FTD Sat. and Sunday. There were...

Last post

Talked to your buddy looking for the Vee.... Let's see how things go!!!

Good luck! I met he and his wife last weekend at the autocross. Real nice...

9 Replies

4045 Views

Last post by snookwheel
August 12th, 2008, 9:21 pm
Mike Billings

Last post by 77fmod « August 11th, 2008, 6:25 pm

by 77fmod » August 11th, 2008, 6:25 pm

Please check your PM's. Need info ASAP..

Thanks much,

Johnny B.

0 Replies

1027 Views

Last post by 77fmod
August 11th, 2008, 6:25 pm
Northeast Divisionals

Last post by bug1960 « July 30th, 2008, 5:11 pm

by bug1960 » July 30th, 2008, 5:11 pm

For those that live in the northeast regions of the SCCA. Divisionals are being hosted by the MOhud region on August 8th-10th at the Seneca Army...

0 Replies

1034 Views

Last post by bug1960
July 30th, 2008, 5:11 pm

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