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Chris "I would also agree if you start with 4 neg instead of 5 neg, then you should reduce your droop to from -2 to -1 as roll and jacking travel seem to be consistent." You are maintaining a range between static and droop because everyone thinks that moving the two settings close to each...

I will bring up the D-13 again as it seems to run less camber than other zero roll cars. I have also noticed that cars are running less camber than before. Noble used to recommend 5 - 6 degrees but today that would probably burn out the inside of the tires. I would also agree if you start with 4 neg...

Chris I'm not sure that the rear camber is as bad as you state. I would say that 1 deg of chassis roll might yield a 1/4 deg of camber change at the rear. Why would you say we don't have much control in the rear? Brian Brian, What I mean is compared to a suspension with upper and lower wishbone. Ou...

Sorry, I have been away. If we agree to certain parameters as being constant from car to car. Weight, Weight distribution, track F & R and wheelbase, Center of gravity, etc., then every car would start with the same amount of negative camber in the rear and would end up with a droop limit of the...

The fact that we are at 90 posts and this is the first time the word "manifold" has been said is amazing in itself! :lol: I think threads like this are fun as they challenge conventional wisdom and exercise our brains. Greg - I totally agree with you that fundamental setup is essential, bu...

Okay, I will throw another thought out there. If the outside tire is causing jacking, I put it that the inside tire is doing the reverse..... There is a force acting down on the transmission on the inside that is fighting the roll. Since the car cannot roll on it's normal axis with the force on the ...

4) "Thinking about it there is a difference between the Corvair and the VW. The Corvair (and Triumph Spitfire) had external universals. The VW has internal pivot points. Not a big difference but in this case VW (Dr Porsche) might have gotten it right - size does matter" Of coarse most all...

Looks like the rear is jacked up. Certainly not squatting... I wish I had some data on the car. In the LR picture the fronts are certainly cornering as the roll over in the front tire shows. You can see the steering input as my hand is at 12 o'clock. And the camber on the outside tire is definitely...

A picture is worth a 1000 words.

What do you think:

http://pages.cthome.net/czracing/FV/ChrisLR1.jpg

http://pages.cthome.net/czracing/FV/ChrisNH1.jpg

ChrisZ

.......................................... As a smart guy I say there is no reason for droop control other than the safety of never letting the rear camber go positive. Droop control has NO cornering performance benefits! Prove a statement otherwise. I can learn something if proven wrong. Brian Bri...

.....A typical weekend includes one race.... Usually correct. Lime Rock cannot run on Sunday, before 10 am on Friday, or after 6pm on any day, so a typical weekend is Friday/Saturday. Friday - 2 qualifying practice sessions Saturday - 1 hardship/warmup, 1 race (length subject to entries and time.) ...

........But seeing as I haven't touched the alignment at all since I bought it from a much heavier driver,........... Very critical that you check your alignment with you in the car. This has happened to many of us before. With you in the car, set your rear camber. (if you are lighter, then you wil...

Also .... put decent front FV tires on a FST ..... it will be loose as can be. For those not aware, FST tires are hard and last for 25-30 sessions. Whether FV or FST, we're only using a couple inches worth of rubber. New FV tires generate much more grip than new FST tires. Six session FV tires gene...

........ Chris Z, although it's against your cardinal rule (cardinal rules are great things), I think I agree that if the rear is assumed to be at its optimum you can't make it better, so to balance an oversteering condition you have to reduce front grip. This is not considering that you can make u...

If you are going to maximize the front end, two things have to happen: 1. Keep the tire in the best camber to generate cornering force. 2. Maintain the best maximum loading on both tires (3. you also have to have the best ackerman - but will leave that out for now. You have already talked about stat...

Brian... ..................... First, you MUST ASSUME that the rear is perfect for this discussion. We can not have a question about which end is causing the trouble. We are solving for one variable not two. Without this assumption your views become pointless. I pick the front end to work with, bec...

Okay here is what I originally wrote - a different take from where the others are going: If the rear is at optimum capability, then my mantra kicks in: "Never reduce handling at one end to achieve balance." But what if adding roll resistance to the back can shift weight so the front handle...

Teacher - the computer ate my homework....

I had a reply in drafts and it is gone! I will be back - too POed to rewrite it now....

ChrisZ

........................... The purpose of all this is to provide the rear suspension with a level of roll resistance at SOME point in the chassis roll curve. The car will get loose (if starting from neutral) as it approaches maximum roll or maximum cornering force. Certainly a driver preference th...

Great Lynx pictures:

http://www.conceptcarz.com/vehicle/z11826/Lynx-B.aspx

ChrisZ

I think we are getting mixed up in nomenclature. When I say droop, I mean both wheels together, not one or the other. A Z-Bar is an anti-jacking device, not a springing medium, as the rules require. The fact that you can preload it does not change it's function. If you preload it to bring the rear c...

Chris said " I used to set my car up with the z-bar unloaded at race ride height (driver and fuel). It was right if it "rattled" while going to the false grid. Droop was adjusted by the length of the arm. In this sense it was only used as a droop stop, not a tuning device ". Say...

Chris 1) Decreasing rate rear suspension. Why a DECREASING rate? 2) Low pivot points for the rear rockers. What benefit? 3) An adjustable roll damper in the rear suspension to take some of the load from front doing all the work. What makes you think that the rear has any extra cornering power avail...

.....Typically you use very soft springs with a lot of travel and use the z-bar to pre-load the coil-overs, pulling down the rear suspension. My roll resistance numbers could be off because of this pre-load. ............ Brian I used to set my car up with the z-bar unloaded at race ride height (dri...

John, An anti-roll bar tries to control body roll and hence weight transfer due to cornering forces. A Z-bar is basically an anti-jacking device. It's purpose is to keep the camber within a certain range. Because it is connected to the chassis, it can imparts a force to the chassis which does affect...